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Real World
03-10-2014, 09:20 AM
So I'd like to open a dialog regarding the coop game mode and how you think it could be improved. We're looking to focus this discussion on the issue of rewarding users who donate to a coop match. Most of you will be aware of the problems having relics as a reward have caused for the leaderboards so as regular players, what would you like to see? There are a number of discussions going on here about this right now including but not limited to

Brag points instead of relics for donators
Restricting the amount of times you can donate per day
Restricting the amount of coop matches you can start per day
Lowering the amount of troops you can donate from 75% of the total battle to 10%

My personal favourite is the last option. We make it so that donators can donate up to 50-60% TOTAL but no one user can donate more than 10% so it would take 5-6 people to reach the full donation level. The leader can donate up to 50-60% themselves. This pushes the rewards more in favour of the leader of a coop match but still provides a reward for players donating.
If you have anything else to suggest them post it below. Please keep this topic clear and to the point to make sure we can find your ideas.

Ian
03-10-2014, 10:33 AM
I think its just a variant on how resources etc are shared,

Brag points are certainly not the answer as they benefit no one and are therefore pointless
Reducing number of donations per day, removes the joy of the alliance
Restricting Co ops same issue
Lowering % of troops better but could make it harder for new alliances to build members

I would if we use an example in figures

10 relics available most go to originator

Donators get them based on donation as now but to a max of 2 per co op

Loot shared on number of unit points * 90% so if you donate 50% you get 45% of loot the extra 5% goes to originator as they are fighting the battle

johnballans@yahoo.co.uk
03-10-2014, 05:37 PM
I would agree with Real World. The term cooperative indicates a larger group involvement. Having just one large donater is counter productive. Getting more of the alliance involved in the cooperative offence would mean the whole team would benefit. This would be a fairer solution.

Fips
03-10-2014, 06:31 PM
For me and my Clan, all the things not nice i read hear. I think better if not evertime changes in koop. Like in the moment, no pokis and no wachs or gold. The fun run away for all of us. Because the higher level of wapons and buildings kost a lot of resis and no chance to get enough together without koop.

The sons of Anarchy

Fips

Andytroll
03-10-2014, 07:04 PM
I think the whole discussion about relics, wax and gold starts when some people get rid of the normal gameplay.

For Example i spend on sunday for four koops, my "clanmate" didn't even won every koop, but he stole some resources. He won 2 of 4 koops, i should get around 250.000 wax and 150.000 gold. Thats whatis displayed in game, but nothing happened, i got nothing.

Thats not really funny. I think to restrictions for koops are not really positive, and to get no Relics when you spend troops isn't funny either. If i spend troops for almost 25.000 or 50.000 wax i should get some of the relicts.

The only restrict i could live with is a restriction of 5 koop spends per day, but even this would destroy my private fun wich i had and have with this game.

Maybe the best would be 50% of relics should go to the one who battle the koop and the rest 50% of the relics should be given to the donators.

Greetings Andy

Sons of Anarchy

mss73
03-11-2014, 12:06 AM
Brag points is for kids.
All that can be purchased on them - this is the trash from which one can not even get rid of!

But give relics for co-op is also wrong. The giver does not fight! And does not even matter how much he turns relics just strong troops guarantee victory, and all.


Restricting the amount of times you can donate per day
Why?
If the asset alliance is willing and able to help others, then it must be so!

This is a matter of developers to ensure that it was a real help in battle, but without abuse.


Restricting the amount of coop matches you can start per day
also unclear, against all active players?


Lowering the amount of troops you can donate from 75% of the total battle to 10%
It's much better, but in different proportions, I think

And not to start a fight, if at least two people did not send help.

And to remove the time limit.
Who came up with 24 hours???


and to get no Relics when you spend troops isn't funny either.
Too many options, either accidentally or intentionally, to abuse.

Even if "a max of 1 relic per co op"
One can arrange a demonstration of the same, even without buying shields. +1 +1 +1 to infinity. With no war, just co-op

I still for not giving relics donators.

Is not it enough that when the co-op creates a weaker player, the right approach and it is and the donor obtained resources?



Loot shared on number of unit points * 90% so if you donate 50% you get 45% of loot the extra 5% goes to originator as they are fighting the battle
Agree,
Whoever controls the fight, should receive even more profit, but in case of defeat to carry even more responsibility!

Neznam
03-11-2014, 01:10 AM
The donators could receive bonus loot. So they get some of the loot that was won plus an additional bonus loot of say up to 25%. The 25% being max and it depends how many troops are donated.

If you donate the full amount of troops that you can then you receive 25% which is the max. So if you receive 100,000 gold(the loot a donator would get) and donated full army you will receive a bonus 25,000 (25%). If you donate 50% of the army then the bonus is cut by half 12,500 (12.5%). And so on.

Perhaps both parties could get the bonus. The attacking party would get 25% always and then the other 25% is divided on the people who have donated.

It could give a reason to use the coop system other than getting relics. This is just roughly drawn up but i think Bonus loot might be a good idea to consider even if it's under some other amounts. I just used the above as a possible example

novaruby26
03-11-2014, 06:33 AM
The whole co op thing is really too hard for me to grasp in reference to the after battle rewards. Just too complicated. Make it simple. The other day I had talked with Real World about a co op I did with an alliance member. SHe put in exactly half of the units, and I put in the other half. I then chose a base that had around 100k of each resource and collected it all and ended battle. Strange thing is, when i got back to my base, I had only 5 relics out of 16 earned, and got around 4k ONLY OF EACH supply lol. That is just really messed up. And if there IS a mathematical equation that makes what I got work out fairly; then whoever made the equation should work for NASA building stuff just as confusing. To me cut and dry: Everyone has to give an equal share of troops. Like a pie cut in even slices. 50/50 25/25/25/25 etc... After that, the fight's wins get distributed evenly; or as evenly as it can be (someone might get more change than another :P ). And the brag points and relics also get split up fairly(someone smart can work out the kinks). No questions asked everything is shared equally. Look at it as a stock investment. You are gambling. You are giving your troops to someone you don't know from Adam. Or even maybe someone you do know; NAMED Adam. But if you lose it, you lose it. Because you tossed in your chips and made an agreement. Personally, I think relics are crap. I like the brag points thing. Im new; so I thought I read the brag points are what you can buy extra cool stuff with? That is better than relics. I keep my relics low just to loot bad players who keep a lot of supplies but bad bases. BY THE WAY THE FRIENDLY MATCHES IS BROKEN. -Dixie

JONBOB
03-11-2014, 10:24 AM
Like the idea of limiting donations but I think 10% is too low 20% or 25 % would fill coops in a reasonable time 10% could mean a long wait for coops to fill and lost resources . I am amused by strong players trying to stop other players progress didnt they exploit the coops when the game was originated didnt they exploit farming etc but it seems that some after exploiting everything want to close the door to newer players !

mss73
03-11-2014, 10:38 AM
I am amused by strong players trying to stop other players progress didnt they exploit the coops when the game was originated didnt they exploit farming etc but it seems that some after exploiting everything want to close the door to newer players !

Where are a bunch of exploits and probably I can "win" in one day.
But I want to play&win honest!

I have long since abandoned any hope for any personal achievements.
Only in an alliance.

And then, exploited from the co-op relics remain...
Banned cheaters too in alliances still present...

Not clear at all what count?
Especially those who continue to come to the game.

JONBOB
03-11-2014, 11:10 AM
People who have been caught cheating have been banned by Hugo but as I understand it their bases continue to exist and can be attacked but cannot attack others . Hugo Will at some point I believe remove them. What I am getting at really is that older alliances which have used all these changes in strategy to get to the top are now making it really difficult for newer alliances to gain relics this is totally unfair unless hugo counts brag relics and gold relics in alliance score from this point. Lets be honest top alliances dont let new players in and kick low scoring players for high scoring players , these alliances are the ones complaining as they no longer have the facility to do coops with newer players but they did at one point.

johnballans@yahoo.co.uk
03-11-2014, 01:49 PM
Get your facts right Jonbob. Myself , the Troll alliance and some ex team mates where the main protagonists campaigning against the current coop system. That was not a recent thing but a campaign that has run for months. I seem to of been nominated the spokesperson on this issue by default not choice. Perhaps I had to go to extreme lengths to finally get my point across but finally the susceptibility of the system was highlighted. Just for your information the Troll alliance never kicks players with low relic scores. We kick non participating players. We encourage chat and supporting teammates by donations. If you don't like that you are out. We have a couple of players with very low relic scores who happen to be some of the longest serving and most important members of the alliance.

JONBOB
03-11-2014, 02:36 PM
You forget I was in the troll alliance before you so I think I know what I am talking about in kicking players which was the reason I left . All original alliances used the strategy of coops to grow but now you want it stopped do you also want to relinquish the relics your alliance got through coops at that time,. The fact is when you get to a certain level it is more difficult to get matches anyone who uses what you call the coop exploit to gain relics unless they have a strong base will lose them at their false level. Myself I will continue donating which I have done all along whether its brown or gold relics but alliances should be credited with the full score of relics just like yours was when growing.

Forsaken
03-11-2014, 05:45 PM
People who have been caught cheating have been banned by Hugo but as I understand it their bases continue to exist and can be attacked but cannot attack others . Hugo Will at some point I believe remove them. What I am getting at really is that older alliances which have used all these changes in strategy to get to the top are now making it really difficult for newer alliances to gain relics this is totally unfair unless hugo counts brag relics and gold relics in alliance score from this point. Lets be honest top alliances dont let new players in and kick low scoring players for high scoring players , these alliances are the ones complaining as they no longer have the facility to do coops with newer players but they did at one point.

Trolls Alliance has been in the top 3 forever now cant blame co-op for this.

P.s. I'm all for dropping everyone's relics back to 0. Think it will put a spark back in the game. Would make it competitive and fun again. Do it every six months if needed until all exploits and cheats are squared away. =)

Really don't see a problem with doing this. Please let me know why it would be a problem. This is coming from someone in the top 3 relic count and the #1 alliance I have the most to lose.

1.Would eliminate people dropping relics on there own to find matches
2. Would eliminate any discrepancy on who top alliance should be due to co-op seeing how it isn't even in effect right now
3.Would Make game competitive again
4.Would allow everyone to spot someone cheating fairly easily (someone having 600 relics the rest of us only 200 and under still) allowing quick action to be taken
5. Im sure there is more pros cant think of a single con yet. besides weak players getting beat up on for a few weeks. which higher levels can do that now if wanted

As far as co-op goes. I don't think donating member should be winning relics. However if your are going to be getting brag points make brag points worth having. New weapons maybe. Or addition weapons (4th mortar 5000 brag trophies) or maybe make the new traps your coming out with only buyable though brag trophies.

Another idea I just though of.. make brag trophies worth gold or wax ( 100 brag trophies =1000000 gold/ or wax) trade in 100 brag trophies for 1000000 gold.

Neznam
03-11-2014, 08:53 PM
As far as co-op goes. I don't think donating member should be winning relics. However if your are going to be getting brag points make brag points worth having. New weapons maybe. Or addition weapons (4th mortar 5000 brag trophies) or maybe make the new traps your coming out with only buyable though brag trophies.
.

This might not be a bad idea. It would definitely encourage using the coop system and it would help all those that are constantly saying the bases are too easy to defeat.

JONBOB
03-11-2014, 09:18 PM
You are completely missing the point hugo that all the top alliances got there using the original method of coops that is donating and getting relics they are now complaining as they want to cut the rungs of the ladder after they have climbed it. As for FORSAKENS comment that trolls have been in top 3 forever maybe since he joined its always been in top 3 but I was in it when it climbed to top in fact I know whole history of trolls which was xxxtrolls and before that bobcats which was formed when original xxxtrolls got disintegrated by hugo . The 2 Ians originally formed the original xxxtrolls and looking at it now it has been taken over by the old xxxreloaded members. However personally this game was good enough for us all to join and enjoy but I am fed up with members trying to influence hugo into changing rules to suit them. Strategies are there to be used by anyone that is what the game is about reporting cheats who have exploited to gain walls over the required amount is one thing but changing the rules to suit strong alliances is a ridiculous abuse of the game and totally unfair to newer p[layers. Looking at trolls their 2 lowest scoring players with a couple of hundred relics have walls level 6 to 8 what new player could hope to win a coop against them with level 2 or 3 troops . This whole coop complaint is a farce to suit them.

Forsaken
03-11-2014, 10:59 PM
You are completely missing the point hugo that all the top alliances got there using the original method of coops that is donating and getting relics they are now complaining as they want to cut the rungs of the ladder after they have climbed it. As for FORSAKENS comment that trolls have been in top 3 forever maybe since he joined its always been in top 3 but I was in it when it climbed to top in fact I know whole history of trolls which was xxxtrolls and before that bobcats which was formed when original xxxtrolls got disintegrated by hugo . The 2 Ians originally formed the original xxxtrolls and looking at it now it has been taken over by the old xxxreloaded members. However personally this game was good enough for us all to join and enjoy but I am fed up with members trying to influence hugo into changing rules to suit them. Strategies are there to be used by anyone that is what the game is about reporting cheats who have exploited to gain walls over the required amount is one thing but changing the rules to suit strong alliances is a ridiculous abuse of the game and totally unfair to newer p[layers. Looking at trolls their 2 lowest scoring players with a couple of hundred relics have walls level 6 to 8 what new player could hope to win a coop against them with level 2 or 3 troops . This whole coop complaint is a farce to suit them.

Jon Bob that's not the case. Out of our 50 members only 2 of use used co-op to gain massive amounts of relics. Myself was the only member to use it since they changed it back to relics instead of brag.we didn't even know that they had changed till a couple days ago. And posted here on forum as soon as we found out. Not sure where your getting off saying were trying to manipulate game to our advantage when only 1 member used it just to prove a point how ridiculous it was
I know of 1 alliance who got to use full advantage of it sending about 8 people into the 1000s and a couple into 2000s. Good for them. All I want is the game to be fair and the way it was set up I don't think it was.

Neznam
03-11-2014, 11:01 PM
JONBOB it's not just players who have high relic count that don't agree with the current system. This is why it's up for discussion. If enough people agree or disagree it will either be changed or not.

In my alliance no one uses the coop system to gain any massive amount of relics. We are ranked in top 10. So you can't really say that all top players are doing this to benefit themselves.

JONBOB
03-11-2014, 11:29 PM
I am aware of the early abuse of coop system but are you blind to the cheating where walls over the amount are used, where players have in a short time grown so fast as to have top level canons , mortars and flags of every description perhaps hugo should spend time doing spot checks on players instead of listening to moans from individual players who have capitalized on all the things they moan about.
The system of relics being won for coops was the original system I personally dont care if they go back to brown and gold relics what I do care about is that alliances get the full relic award just like all the top alliances got before all this rubbish started. Alliances maybe should all start from scratch under new rules if hugo was really wanting to be fair. Oni your alliance got to top 10 under the original coop system so are you saying that your alliance score never benifited from full award of relics from coops sorry that is rubbish . As for individual people using this strategy I have said it before the more people at a higher level the better I have spent a full day with the no match sign again which was not happening when relics were getting awarded . Hugo devised a good game, stop listening to moans, sort out the cheats, and let us all get on with playing to fair rules.

mss73
03-11-2014, 11:32 PM
whoa, whoa, not so fast :)

There is a proposal is not entirely nullify relics, and a little trickier.

For example to add up all the relics in the game and share all proportion to the number of stars.

Silly and stupid, but when starting from scratch, the total number of relics will not grow as quickly, because they are produced only "from zero"
That is, with the defeat of the player with ~zero relics


and yet I continue to insist on that offer
stars^2+relics

math is the key

Neznam
03-11-2014, 11:34 PM
At first it wasn't evident that it was a problem. Now that more people are playing and we have gotten a sense of what works and what doesn't this really isn't moaning but more a push towards making a better game.
And yes i am saying that my alliance gained relics the normal way. We rarely use the coop system. If you find that rubbish that's not my problem but that's the truth. I'm not saying it's never used but daily i see only 1 request for coop out of 49 people. And that's sometimes 1, sometimes none.

mss73
03-11-2014, 11:51 PM
1.Would eliminate people dropping relics on there own to find matches

hehe
Even if zero, three days can start dropping.

mss73
03-11-2014, 11:55 PM
Jon Bob that's not the case. Out of our 50 members only 2 of use used co-op to gain massive amounts of relics. Myself was the only member to use it since they changed it back to relics instead of brag.we didn't even know that they had changed till a couple days ago. And posted here on forum as soon as we found out.

I saw it all, I confirm :)

mss73
03-12-2014, 12:03 AM
In my alliance no one uses the coop system to gain any massive amount of relics. We are ranked in top 10. So you can't really say that all top players are doing this to benefit themselves.
+1

We hid in ambush (now 14th)

And it is an event co-op on March 8 prevented us jump out of an ambush. The attack was planned for the March 9.

Of course, nobody would have believed that we honestly have risen :(

mss73
03-12-2014, 12:23 AM
Oni your alliance got to top 10 under the original coop system so are you saying that your alliance score never benifited from full award of relics from coops sorry that is rubbish.

You discuss something without understanding the situation.

Their leaders 1300-1200 relics. So much you can earn without any abuse.
In the area there is a real fair fight

EVEN IF they had used the co-op to increase the cups at the moment it no longer has any value.
None of the participants is not on the unattainable height.

JONBOB
03-12-2014, 01:00 AM
Sorry if you misunderstand the issue but can you tell me why a 200 plus relic player playing in my alliance can go against a 200 relic player in trolls who has level 8 walls has an advantage with some level 5 troops perhaps you should research the issue more and waken up to what is proposed by players who dont know what real level 2/3 players are meeting

mss73
03-12-2014, 01:13 AM
By the way, I have to wonder why the walls of experience does not count.
It would have at least a little to properly show the level of the base.

http://forum.hugogames.com/showthread.php?528

mss73
03-12-2014, 01:22 AM
what is proposed by players who dont know what real level 2/3 players are meeting

Relics currently nothing.

Can not you see the number of stars? What the hell are we talking about?!!!

GoofyGirl
03-12-2014, 07:28 AM
Get over yourself and stop crying JONBOB. Your acting like a 2 y/o because your alliance is not at the top. Trolls have fought there way to the top fairly. We dont kick low relic players we kick non active or non donators. You know nothing! Stop talking smack like a child. I thought you were a grown man? Guess you proved wrong. Lets put this out there. Your two faced talk behind others back then be nice to there face. Ian is who im referencing too. I use to think of you as a nice kind person but now I think your..... Yea I cant post it here. You have NO right to post about trolls or any other alliance ms know-it-all. You can apologize to not only Troll members but all other alliance's your bashing on. Last fact about JONBOB, you have countless accounts to sit back and feed troops to one account to another. Talk about using co-ops for relics. You have done this dating back konths ago when you were in Trolls. That sounds like cheating. To bad you suck at it. DONT ADDRESS ME because I have better things to do then be bothered by nasty mouth know nothings like yourself.

Neznam
03-12-2014, 07:49 AM
That really wasn't necessary Goofygirl. I know you were trying to make a point but you went a little too far. You have to keep in mind that you have to be respectful to one another even when you don't want to. If you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all.

Real World
03-12-2014, 07:51 AM
OK so my request for this to stay on topic seems to have been ignored. Will close this now and discuss what ideas I can find in here with the team.